Hard to believe there is somebody out there kind-of defending him! Good for the controller for remaining reasonable. Karen Mosley apparetly is clueless about aviation. Yeah, he was a jerk, but she is paid to problem solve, and she didn't offer him any useful solutions other than to just leave. Aviation SafetyOffice of Safety StandardsRegulatory Support DivisionAviation Data Systems Branch, In our continuing effort to improve the quality of service to our stakeholders, we would appreciate any comments you may have about our services and how to improve them. I was the 16yo kid working the desk when his #2 instructor sent a private student off on his long cross country and controlled airspace solo flight he went to lunch. Oh my gosh! Result - IP and my Mom who normally ran the business in Dads absence got back at the same time. Best Flight Tracker: Live Tracking Maps, Flight Status, and Airport Delays for airline flights, private/GA flights, and airports. What's the big deal? There's no stick up anyone's ass here just concerned people who want to ensure the people who trust us to get them to point B are safe. E incorporated its pilot deviation notification procedures into the Facility Operation and Administration publication in 1986. Word of caution: the owner of the aircraft is easily found, and plenty of information is out there. You'd be surprised how many Pilots act like they are the only plane an ATC is working even tho she is nonstop talking sequencing Arrivals to one of the top 5 busiest airports in the USA!!! From available ATC communications, it appears this particular pilot either forgot to make the request, or thought he made the request to get permission. I suggested they speak with the father and ask him if perhaps, she was a spoiled B. My father was an Air Traffic Controller when the accident happened over San Diego in 1979 (not the one on duty when the accident occurred) so I know just as much about the history of this airspace as you claim to know, maybe even more. Yes humans make mistakes, and that is why aviation has the strictest protocols outside Oh my gosh! I'd like to know more about the outcome. Get Alerts. You might get hypoxic if you fly right over Class B at 10000 or above. When approach calls tower about a deviation, they may or may not give details. I'm a Retired LAS Controller. I was working the ER In Jerusalem and this belligerent teen was being kept there for observation post head trauma. Secure .gov websites use HTTPS Your feedback is important in helping us keep our community safe. and I think you are either that rude pilot or his wife. In aviation terms regarding "pilot deviation", the controller is telling the pilot that he is being reported, and there will be an investigation by the FAA. https://www.muckrock.com/foi/united-states-of-america-10/faa-records-for-n731nr-97015/, (You must log in or sign up to reply here. 05:29PM CDT Abel Santa Maria - SNU. Pursuant to the Freedom of Information Act, I hereby request the following records: An electronic copy of:- any accident, investigation, pilot deviation reports, legal enforcement actions (incl suspensions, revocations and/or monetary penalties) or FSDO records (including statements or phone recordings from Las Vegas or Henderson Tower ATC regarding a possible pivot deviation on June 20, 2020 where N731NR may have entered Bravo airspace without clearance*)- from 2018-Nov-5 to present,- of owner WIFE APPROVED LLC, registration N731NR, or Jeff Wachner. I live under the approach and departure path to MIA, so I constantly have ATC audio playing in the background. 800 Independence Avenue, SW Why am I not surprised this happened in Vegas, where they're apparently allergic to rules. Subject: FOIA 2020-007191WP DUE: 8/6/2020, 411A Highland AvenueSomerville, MA 02144-2516, Subject: Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) Request 2020-007191WP. I just looked over the link you posted. Runway 27L, cleared for takeoff." You respond appropriately. That being said, its not just a comfort level thing or willingness issue - its often a safety judgement. When you have 2 F-16s or 2 F-15s escorting you that should bring sense into your head faster than having the nerve to argue. 07-Oct-2022. The FARs couldn't be more clear on this situation. The few concerns about behavior affected by incipient tumor or hypoxia bring back memories. For specific information, you may request a copy of . from 7110.65 Reply IctrlPlanes Additional comment actions It was after the check ride was over that it was actually issued. Some of the penalties of pilot deviation can be no action, a warning notice or letter of correction, certificate suspension, civil penalties, retraining, and even certificate revocation. Or the one over Cerritos in 1986?". But if it was just a misjudgment, and we all make those from time to time, the appropriate response would be to simply apologize to the Controller, then get out. Neil Wilsonthe CFIIsays "maybe the controller was playing her class BRAVO authority a little too far".. You should not be a CFII with that kind of attitude. BTW to the ATC controller who explained workload issues during handoff - thank you!! When told to leave it, he refused and was belligerent. Thank you for your very thoughtful insight. Reminds me of center frequencies ignoring calls from VFR aircraft. N1NR greeted LAS with standard communication and LAS responded with standard information that N1NR would need for their arrival at Henderson airport. These guys & women keep 10-20 balls in the air constantly..you think you can do better?? This brasher warning is intended to provide the involved flight crew with the opportunity to make note of the incident that has taken place and gather their thoughts before it is discussed. Thank you for your attached FOIA request. Anyway, a video has just been uploaded of an interaction between an air traffic controller and a pilot over the skies of Las Vegas on June 20, 2020. This pilot penatrated that airspace at what appears to have been approximately 4800. FAA CPL-H He did not damage anybody. Making excuses for people gets others killed. All I can say is ATC should be paid for saving people's lives!!!!! I hope that this finds you well and safe, We apologize for the delay in response. The owner of that plane holds a Commercial Pilot Certificate. Keep up the anti-mask bs. What almost everyone here is saying is correct (save for the C who ragged on GA pilots - the kind that most ATPS once were in order to get to where they are today- B!). Alan BillingsFOIA Business AnalystFederal Aviation Administration AFN-400(O)
[email protected], Subject: RE: Freedom of Information Act Request: FAA records for N731NR. When the controller said he was not cleared to enter the class B he probably thought he wasn't in the class B and after his 1st conversation is when he probably noticed he was off altitude because he made a quick decent to 4000 ft. His next run in is when he cut the corner of the center ring which is from the ground to 10000 ft MSL. For this pilot (tail number N731NR abbreviated to N1NR), it wasn't a mistake as noted by the following exchange: LAS Approach: "N1NR, I need you outside of the Bravo"N731NR: "Negative"LAS: "Negative what? This letter acknowledges receipt of your FOIA request dated May 27, 2020, regarding any accident, investigation, pilot deviation reports, legal enforcement actions, or FSDO records, regarding a possible pivot deviation on June 20, 2020 where N731NR may have entered Bravo airspace without clearance. The report said the pilot was distracted adjusting the climate control on approach. The pilot never requested clearance into the class BRAVO airspace. he Karen Mosley apparetly is clueless about aviation. Keep up the anti-mask bs. Pull that @$$holes license and give him a huge fine. Who knows what the FAA would consider a serious offense if we ever make a legitimate error? - refusing to take down a number because "busy flying" . The likelihood of an actual air collision is low due to the training of "most" pilots, but you don't need a guy like this. People get frustrated in the air just like they do in cars and dont get their license suspended. My local airport is RDU. If you do not, then you might face losing your certificate, which isnt what anybody wants. Information Mike current at Henderson, they're landing 35"N731NR: [inaudible]. In over 30 years of flying, I have sat and listened to amateur pilots give ATC professionals a load of sh*#. About 45 minutes after the student left my phone rings Caller - this is xx. However, the penalties for pilot deviation can be quite severe, which is something that you should be aware of. This guy make me sick!!! Just to offer a slightly different perspective on all of this, I am wondering if there's a medical issue here, in which some sympathy might be warranted. U.S. Department of Transportation Federal Aviation Administration 800 Independence Avenue, SW Washington, DC 20591 1-866-TELL-FAA (1-866-835-5322) Eg. I hope he stops making bad decisions before he no longer has the ability to do so. Most were very professional and cooperative but there are always the few that made things difficult. Sort it out on the ground, or declare an emergency: pilot is an ass. Your participation in helping us identify both our strong and weak points will help us improve our service(s) to all our stakeholders. And, when pilot deviation notification procedures were first added to the ATC manual in 1995, the procedure and phraseology were substantially similar to the pertinent provisions of Notice She was released later on. WWFeldman Pre-takeoff checklist Joined: Nov 11, 2019 Messages: 107 Display name: WWFeldman I'm sure we all remember our favorite bravo buster. 2020-007191WS Anonymous (Laing) Invoice.pdf, 2020-007191WS Anonymous (Laing) PDPNR.pdf, Subject: RE: Freedom of Information Act Request #2020-007191. First of all, I've never gotten one, and don't plan to get one. Not a cool move on his part. Good job on hitting a new high USA! 1) Probably not hypoxia. [His lack of permission and knowledge about needing such was discussed by previous posters and is referenced here just for completeness.]. If he had a sick passenger he should have explained the situation to ATC better or at all. . P.S. I noticed the same aircraft had an incident last year with a gear-up landing in St. Louis. They don't take airspace incursions lightly, ESPECIALLY in the #8 most busy airport in the US. He busted that test and they pulled his ticket. Almost everybody agrees the jerk was wrong and dangerously so. Laws don't matter anymore. Pilot deviation is when the actions of the pilot result in the violation of a Federal Aviation Regulation or a North American Aerospace Defense Command Air Defense Identification Zone tolerance. Anyone flying under VFR (Visual Flight Rules) needs to hear the words You are cleared to enter the Bravo airspace before entering the Bravo airspace. A pilot will be given priority in an emergency situation, and they will need to submit a report of this emergency within 48 hours to the manager of the ATC facility if this is requested of them. Really when you hit "submit" you should have not. I'm a commercial pilot and CFII. The FAA should (and probably will) commence an emergency revocation of the pilot's certificate. If the pilot is unsure of an ATC clearance, they can simply request clarification from ATC. Double that. Can A Private Pilot Fly As A Sport Pilot. It is a technical term that means that the pilot in command failed to observe FAA regulations, ATC clearances, or temporary flight restrictions in the conduct of his/her flight. But I'd recommend against posting it, even if that person turns out to be the idiot in question. Please refer to the above referenced number on all future correspondence regarding this request. You need special clearance to enter this airspace. Amelia McGillManagement & Program Analyst (FOIA Coordinator)FAA-Office of Foundational BusinessCorrespondence Services Branch, AFB-130424-405-7221. Caller - this is xx. For the bloviating piehole who made a comment about the American pilot who required 31L, I was the PIC and I declared an emergency three times because there was one. It causes paperwork (at the very least) on both sides and is also distracting from other important duties. Civil aviation authorities should raise pilot standards. She is going to give him the number when he's ready. N1NR answers back that "he's flying". That's a terrible thing to say, that a pilot should lose his license. Without that you cannot enter class B airspace. At the end, it seems like there was at least one transmission we didn't hear where this pilot was giving "his side of the story" to Henderson Ground, hence that controller apologizing to him. So long "Karen". What else could you expect? Calling the cops on "someone suspicious" has become a way to say "There's a minority person and I don't like something about them so I called the cops on them.". It was quite a [emailprotected]## show. You have successfully joined our subscriber list. I was interested in being a Pilot but it shocks me how awful other pilots can be, they even revert to ganging up or saying a terrible thing because of a mistake another pilot made as if they "the great one" has never made a mistake in their life. If you have any questions or concerns, please contact the coordinator(s) found in the letter. document.getElementById( "ak_js" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); He violated Bravo airspace. Please view our advertising policy page for additional details about our partners. Been there, done that. He did not declare a fuel emergency, so go east over Lake Meade, or go west over Red Rocks and stay out of B and get to HND without any issues. NASTY ARGUMENT between Cessna Pilot and Vegas ATC! We will leave some of the most common violations below for you to read about. It would be one thing if he "unintentionally" violated the Class B airspace (how exactly do you do that in this day and age?).